Antarctic Ice Refuses to Melt

antarcticaAren’t those polar ice caps a rotten lot? As politicians are busily trying to save them from melting, they’ve gone and stopped disappearing all on their own. Despite the best efforts of climate change fanatics at producing a lot of hot air, NASA have quietly noted that Antarctic sea ice reached a new maximum extent last year. That wasn’t supposed to happen. As everyone knows the ice is melting because of all the carbon we’re emitting, so how do we explain that it actually isn’t?

It isn’t actually that difficult to explain, but it would involve making the crucial admission that we don’t actually know why the ice is doing what it’s doing. We have absolutely no idea, and a terrible record at predicting it. Al Gore thought it would all be gone by 2014.

What’s actually happened here is a classic case of mistaking correlation for causation, by using a hopelessly small set of data. Arctic ice has only been measured with any accuracy since 1979 when NASA started using satellite images to monitor it. This was great news for those who wanted to find a big problem, because as old people will remember the mid 20th century was a mini ice age and global cooling was more of a concern than global warming. Average temperatures rose slightly and the ice caps retreated in the years following and the global warming scam began.

Thirty-six years is a hopelessly small period of time over which to discern any meaningful information about changes in the climate of the planet. Something which evolves slowly, changes constantly and something of which we have only a very limited understanding.

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  • Avatar

    Charles Duemler

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    glacial discharge creates sea ice

    Reply

    • Avatar

      Gator

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      Hot/cold causes sea ice, and hot/cold is caused by man made CO2.

      [img]https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/image_thumb112.png?w=520&h=312[/img]

      Reply

      • Avatar

        Charles Duemler

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        take a warm pool,
        dump a bunch of ice in it,
        the pool will cool down
        grace says that antarctica is loosing ice
        planes that measure the thickness of glaciers say that antarctica is loosing ice

        Reply

        • Avatar

          Gator

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          Of course it is.

          [img]https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/14southernssta_thumb.png?w=504&h=331[/img]

          GRACE is infallible, like the Pope.

          [i]According to NASA’s Land-Ice Study published in 2012, from 1992-2008:

          “Mass Gains of the Antarctic Ice Sheet Exceed Losses.”

          During 2003 to 2008, the mass gain of the Antarctic ice sheet from snow accumulation exceeded the mass loss from ice discharge by 49 Gt/yr (2.5% of input).

          The net gain (86 Gt/yr) over the West Antarctic (WA) and East Antarctic ice sheets (WA and EA) is essentially unchanged from revised results for 1992 to 2001.[/i]

          http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20120013495

          [i]Increases offsetting losses:

          …“The recent 90 Gt/yr loss from three DS (Pine Island, Thwaites-Smith, and Marie-Bryd Coast) of WA exceeds the earlier 61 Gt/yr loss, consistent with reports of accelerating ice flow and dynamic thinning.

          Similarly, the recent 24 Gt/yr loss from three DS in the Antarctic Peninsula (AP) is consistent with glacier accelerations following breakup of the Larsen B and other ice shelves.

          In contrast, net increases in the five other DS of WA and AP and three of the 16 DS in East Antarctica (EA) exceed the increased losses.”[/i]

          Reply

          • Avatar

            Charles Duemler

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            yes, antarctica was gaining mass
            now antarctica is loosing mass

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            And your proof of this comes from where?

            Isn’t this you?

          • Avatar

            Charles Duemler

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            i read about this stuff almost every day, you really need me to look up grace measurements of antarctica??
            didn’t you say you didn’t believe in grace?
            why bother than?

            yes, that is me, there is much more to solution but controlling where the start of the eye wall moves is something that scientists state should work and eye walls emit long wave radiation out into space. my tornado killer is pretty cool also, understand the physics involved?? keep in mind the hurricane is still listed as an enigma so scientists cannot even figure out how one works though they make sense to me

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            You need to broaden your sources.

            [i]1. JPL admits that satellite measurement of the Earth has issues because a stable Terrestrial Reference Frame was never established for any of the satellite programs. It’s like setting out to do a terrestrial survey without having an accurate benchmark first. This puts all subsequent data derived with the stable benchmark (the stable TRF) into question.

            2. The lack of a stable TRF affects most if not all satellite programs used in this new Shepherd et al paper ‘A reconciled estimate of ice sheet mass balance‘ including ICESAT and GRACE, upon which the paper heavily relies.

            3. In searching both the full paper (which I purchased from AAAS) and from the extensive supplementary materials and information (SM-SI available here: Shepherd.SM-SI.pdf ) for Shepherd et al, I find no mention of TRF or “Terrestrial Reference Frame” anywhere. It appears that all 47 authors are unaware of the TRF stability issue, or if they were aware, it was never brought to bear in peer review to test the veracity of the paper and its conclusions from the satellite data. Section 3 of the Shepard et al SM-SI deals with uncertainty, but also makes no mention of the TRF issue.

            4. The lack of a stable TRF puts all of the space based geodetic data into question, thus the conclusions of the Shepherd et al paper are essentially worthless at the moment, since there isn’t any good way to remove the TRF error from the data with post processing. If there were, the GRASP team at NASA JPL wouldn’t be calling for a new satellite platform and mission to solve the problem. Obviously, this isn’t an issue they take lightly.[/i]

            Stick to Warcraft.

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            On Skepticalscience.com…

            http://www.populartechnology.net/2012/03/truth-about-skeptical-science.html?m=1

            And yes, not only have I heard from NASA astronauts, my brother works at NASA.

            [i]The Honorable Charles Bolden, Jr.
            NASA Administrator
            NASA Headquarters
            Washington, D.C. 20546-0001

            Dear Charlie,

            We, the undersigned, respectfully request that NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) refrain from including unproven remarks in public releases and websites. We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.

            The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.

            As former NASA employees, we feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate. We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject. At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA’s current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.

            For additional information regarding the science behind our concern, we recommend that you contact Harrison Schmitt or Walter Cunningham, or others they can recommend to you.

            Thank you for considering this request.[/i]

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            [i](Attached signatures)

            CC: Mr. John Grunsfeld, Associate Administrator for Science

            CC: Ass Mr. Chris Scolese, Director, Goddard Space Flight Center

            Ref: Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, dated 3-26-12, regarding a request for NASA to refrain from making unsubstantiated claims that human produced CO2 is having a catastrophic impact on climate change.

            /s/ Jack Barneburg, Jack – JSC, Space Shuttle Structures, Engineering Directorate, 34 years

            /s/ Larry Bell – JSC, Mgr. Crew Systems Div., Engineering Directorate, 32 years

            /s/ Dr. Donald Bogard – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 41 years

            /s/ Jerry C. Bostick – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 23 years

            /s/ Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist – astronaut, 5 years

            /s/ Michael F. Collins, JSC, Chief, Flight Design and Dynamics Division, MOD, 41 years

            /s/ Dr. Kenneth Cox – JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years

            /s/ Walter Cunningham – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 7, 8 years

            /s/ Dr. Donald M. Curry – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years

            /s/ Leroy Day – Hdq. Deputy Director, Space Shuttle Program, 19 years

            /s/ Dr. Henry P. Decell, Jr. – JSC, Chief, Theory & Analysis Office, 5 years

            /s/Charles F. Deiterich – JSC, Mgr., Flight Operations Integration, MOD, 30 years

            /s/ Dr. Harold Doiron – JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years

            /s/ Charles Duke – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 16, 10 years

            /s/ Anita Gale

            /s/ Grace Germany – JSC, Program Analyst, 35 years

            /s/ Ed Gibson – JSC, Astronaut Skylab 4, 14 years

            /s/ Richard Gordon – JSC, Astronaut, Gemini Xi, Apollo 12, 9 years

            /s/ Gerald C. Griffin – JSC, Apollo Flight Director, and Director of Johnson Space Center, 22 years

            /s/ Thomas M. Grubbs – JSC, Chief, Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Branch, 31 years

            /s/ Thomas J. Harmon

            /s/ David W. Heath – JSC, Reentry Specialist, MOD, 30 years

            /s/ Miguel A. Hernandez, Jr. – JSC, Flight crew training and operations, 3 years

            /s/ James R. Roundtree – JSC Branch Chief, 26 years

            /s/ Enoch Jones – JSC, Mgr. SE&I, Shuttle Program Office, 26 years

            /s/ Dr. Joseph Kerwin – JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years

            /s/ Jack Knight – JSC, Chief, Advanced Operations and Development Division, MOD, 40 years

            /s/ Dr. Christopher C. Kraft – JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years

            /s/ Paul C. Kramer – JSC, Ass.t for Planning Aeroscience and Flight Mechanics Div., Egr. Dir., 34 years

            /s/ Alex (Skip) Larsen

            /s/ Dr. Lubert Leger – JSC, Ass’t. Chief Materials Division, Engr. Directorate, 30 years

            /s/ Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years

            /s/ Donald K. McCutchen – JSC, Project Engineer – Space Shuttle and ISS Program Offices, 33 years

            /s/ Thomas L. (Tom) Moser – Hdq. Dep. Assoc. Admin. & Director, Space Station Program, 28 years

            /s/ Dr. George Mueller – Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years

            /s/ Tom Ohesorge

            /s/ James Peacock – JSC, Apollo and Shuttle Program Office, 21 years

            /s/ Richard McFarland – JSC, Mgr. Motion Simulators, 28 years

            /s/ Joseph E. Rogers – JSC, Chief, Structures and Dynamics Branch, Engr. Directorate,40 years

            /s/ Bernard J. Rosenbaum – JSC, Chief Engineer, Propulsion and Power Division, Engr. Dir., 48 years

            /s/ Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt – JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years

            /s/ Gerard C. Shows – JSC, Asst. Manager, Quality Assurance, 30 years

            /s/ Kenneth Suit – JSC, Ass’t Mgr., Systems Integration, Space Shuttle, 37 years

            /s/ Robert F. Thompson – JSC, Program Manager, Space Shuttle, 44 years/s/ Frank Van Renesselaer – Hdq., Mgr. Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters, 15 years

            /s/ Dr. James Visentine – JSC Materials Branch, Engineering Directorate, 30 years

            /s/ Manfred (Dutch) von Ehrenfried – JSC, Flight Controller; Mercury, Gemini & Apollo, MOD, 10 years[/i]

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            And then there are these 1000 scientists who say CAGW is BS…

            [i]More than 1000 dissenting scientists (updates previous 700 scientist report ) from around the globe have now challenged man-made global warming claims made by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and former Vice President Al Gore. This new 2010 320-page Climate Depot Special Report — updated from 2007’s groundbreaking U.S. Senate Report of over 400 scientists who voiced skepticism about the so-called global warming “consensus” — features the skeptical voices of over 1000 international scientists, including many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN IPCC. This updated 2010 report includes a dramatic increase of over 300 additional (and growing) scientists and climate researchers since the last update in March 2009. This report’s release coincides with the 2010 UN global warming summit being held in Cancun.
            The more than 300 additional scientists added to this report since March 2009 (21 months ago), represents an average of nearly four skeptical scientists a week speaking out publicly. The well over 1000 dissenting scientists are almost 20 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers .
            The chorus of skeptical scientific voices grew louder in 2010 as the Climategate scandal — which involved the upper echelon of UN IPCC scientists — detonated upon on the international climate movement. “I view Climategate as science fraud, pure and simple,” said noted Princeton Physicist Dr. Robert Austin shortly after the scandal broke. Climategate prompted UN IPCC scientists to turn on each other. UN IPCC scientist Eduardo Zorita publicly declared that his Climategate colleagues Michael Mann and Phil Jones “should be barred from the IPCC process…They are not credible anymore.” Zorita also noted how insular the IPCC science had become. “By writing these lines I will just probably achieve that a few of my future studies will, again, not see the light of publication,” Zorita wrote. A UN lead author Richard Tol lead author grew disillusioned with the IPCC and lamented that it had been “captured” and demanded that “the Chair of IPCC and the Chairs of the IPCC Working Groups should be removed.” Tol also publicly called for the “suspension” of IPCC Process in 2010 after being invited by the UN to participate as lead author again in the next IPCC Report.
            Other UN scientists were more blunt. South African UN scientist declared the UN IPCC a “worthless carcass” and noted IPCC chair Pachauri is in “disgrace”. He also explained that the “fraudulent science continues to be exposed.” Alexander, a former member of the UN Scientific and Technical Committee on Natural Disasters harshly critiqued the UN. “‘I was subjected to vilification tactics at the time. I persisted. Now, at long last, my persistence has been rewarded…There is no believable evidence to support [the IPCC] claims. I rest my case!” See: S. African UN Scientist Calls it! ‘Climate change – RIP: Cause of Death: No scientifically believable evidence…Deliberate manipulation to suit political objectives’ [Also see: New Report: UN Scientists Speak Out On Global Warming — As Skeptics! ] Geologist Dr. Don Easterbrook, a professor of geology at Western Washington University, summed up the scandal on December 3, 2010: “The corruption within the IPCC revealed by the Climategate scandal, the doctoring of data and the refusal to admit mistakes have so severely tainted the IPCC that it is no longer a credible agency.”
            Selected Highlights of the Updated 2010 Report featuring over 1000 international scientists dissenting from man-made climate fears:
            “We’re not scientifically there yet. Despite what you may have heard in the media, there is nothing like a consensus of scientific opinion that this is a problem. Because there is natural variability in the weather, you cannot statistically know for another 150 years.” — UN IPCC’s Tom Tripp, a member of the UN IPCC since 2004 and listed as one of the lead authors and serves as the Director of Technical Services & Development for U.S. Magnesium.
            “Any reasonable scientific analysis must conclude the basic theory wrong!!” — NASA Scientist Dr. Leonard Weinstein who worked 35 years at the NASA Langley Research Center and finished his career there as a Senior Research Scientist. Weinstein, is presently a Senior Research Fellow at the National Institute of Aerospace.[/i]

            http://www.globalresearch.ca/more-than-1000-international-scientists-dissent-over-man-made-global-warming-claims/5403284

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            I can also add another 30,000 scientists if you like. How many can you find that say CAGW is real?

            Stick to video games Charles.

          • Avatar

            Charles Duemler

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            what does it matter if it’s gw or agw — if it’s cagw or cgw??

            you quote climategate a known laughing stock of a denial reason — i have no further use discussing anything with you

            open your eyes!!
            hot ass temps everywhere, watch vice!!

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            By admitting that you do not know the difference between GW, AGW, and CAGW, you admit you are a know nothing.

            Climate gate was not a skeptic issue, it was the alarmists in their own words.

            And warming is natural.

            [img]https://edmhdotme.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/screen-shot-2015-05-25-at-11-09-40.png[/img]

          • Avatar

            Charles Duemler

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            what i was saying is it doesn’t matter if global warming is man made or the result of natural processes. look at the facts as to what the situation is that we’re facing right now, that is what matters.

            the only thing climate gate proved was that someone illegally hacked into private emails. the scientists were cleared because they were doing scientific work correctly.

            yes, we are part of nature so all warming could be considered part of nature

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            Wong again Charles. Climategate was not a hack.

            https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/why-climategate-was-not-a-computer-hack/

            And no, the alarmists were not cleared.

            http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704075604575356611173414140

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/07/05/michael-mann-and-the-climategate-whitewash-part-ii/

            What warming? The tiny amount since the LIA?

            [img]https://edmhdotme.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/screen-shot-2015-05-27-at-10-42-21.png[/img]

            The warming that stopped nearly two decades ago?

            [img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9-EqBi3gVAE/VC6pDRiNPUI/AAAAAAAArik/m1OBzYMXoaI/s800/monckton18years1month.png[/img]

            Stick to your computer games, and leave science to those who understand it.

          • Avatar

            Me

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            Holy crap, that was, well I don’t have words to describe it. Pipe dreams to a whole another level.

          • Avatar

            Gator

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            I think you mean “wholly crap.”

  • Avatar

    Amber

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    In fairness Al Gore only predicted Arctic ice would be gone in the summers .

    Antarctica at one and a half the land size of the USA and an average summer temperature of minus 18 degrees even Al Gore wouldn’t jump that shark and proclaim it will be ice free . Any prediction along those lines will ensure a ride to a padded room .

    Reply

  • Avatar

    GR82DRV

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    Even a broken clock is correct twice each day… I think the alarmists are depending on that kind of science to make their case.

    Reply

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